Curse

Cottage Pie · Jun 20, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

If you take 5 energy spells, say, orison, touch, eth light, healing light... and a signet or two, sig rejuv or sig devotion, you should not run outta energy. If somebody dies it should be from a spike. Even then, if you are a superb monk you can catch a spike and outheal it. You monks that use heal party, jameis gaze, heal other... you guys deserve to be chewed out for being a crappy healer.

HP rocks, but yeah sometimes it's best to let someone die than burn energy on healing them, but any healing monk should have the ability to knock a health bar up fast a few times.

I used to use...Word of healing, Orison, Dwaynas kiss, Heal other, Heal party, Sig of devotion but normally a hard rez, Power drain (int=a heal and gained energy), and migrane signet (no energy to cast+int+energy, very slow recharge time), that build saw me and my team though anything PvE wise.

energy gaining Interupts on monks are excellent, i love it.

lg5000 · Jun 20, 2006, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowLad21

Monk Union- You abuse, you don't get healed. Now, the problem is, most non-monks keep their mouth shut, don't listen to the monk, then use caps locks when they weren't healed.

Damn, I'm part of 'most' in the sense that I'm an average player who keeps their mouth shut. Unfortunatly, I don't whine about the monk not healing them and have been known to appologies for dying or thank the monk for keeping me alive while I'm playing a caster who 'accidentally' tanked.

In most cases, only one thing will get me killed, my own stupidity, and that's across all classes. There are very few times when it's the monks fault, though, if I get no heals as a warrior, then I consider the monk at fault for my eventual death.

This topic reminds me of the last time I monked and blatantly refused to heal the warrior who was on the other side of the red dots (pve) prefering to keep the warrior on my side of the dots up and the rest of the team. Yes, the dear warrior on the other side of the dots pointed out that he was dead, and I pointed out that I wasn't going to suecide to keep him up. Second time he did that and had the same reasoning explained to him, he realised his error and stuck with the team.

Matsumi · Jun 20, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Ah yes, the monk abuse, don't you love it sometimes? Well, why not give some of the love back? I find it hard to even care anymore when I'm in a pug really. If Rambo wants to solo, I let Rambo die. "Rambo is dead!" Really? I thought he got sent into another dimension, thanks for informing me. "Rambo has 30% Death Penalty!" Sucks for Rambo, doesn't it? Guess he better try not to die so fast anymore by himself, way over there. "Where's the heals monk?" Who's this monk person you keep referring to? Maybe if you could say their name, we could discover where the heals have gone, by asking them. "Res me now!" I think I like you better lying on the ground. Besides, it's kind of funny seeing text messages appear out of the dirt. Are you sure you're not in another dimension, because your health bar looks funny. "I have X on me!" Ya, that sucks, doesn't it? How about a nice healing breaze? Awww, don't like me anymore? Go start up a monk character, because I know you could do a better job than me, always.

Markaedw · Jun 20, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matsumi

Ah yes, the monk abuse, don't you love it sometimes? Well, why not give some of the love back? I find it hard to even care anymore when I'm in a pug really. If Rambo wants to solo, I let Rambo die. "Rambo is dead!" Really? I thought he got sent into another dimension, thanks for informing me. "Rambo has 30% Death Penalty!" Sucks for Rambo, doesn't it? Guess he better try not to die so fast anymore by himself, way over there. "Where's the heals monk?" Who's this monk person you keep referring to? Maybe if you could say their name, we could discover where the heals have gone, by asking them. "Res me now!" I think I like you better lying on the ground. Besides, it's kind of funny seeing text messages appear out of the dirt. Are you sure you're not in another dimension, because your health bar looks funny. "I have X on me!" Ya, that sucks, doesn't it? How about a nice healing breaze? Awww, don't like me anymore? Go start up a monk character, because I know you could do a better job than me, always.

LOL, I may have to get Aslan out of guild hall and start him up again, dust of the ol' WF and see about getting him to Shiro.

Amon Borknagar · Jun 20, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

My reply to Sagius:

Hey man, healing signet is a great skill. I only use it when I'm rolling with henchies though. It obviously works great for you and that's cool. But by implying that HS is better for a warrior, are you only thinking of yourself? And that is where we differ. Personally I don't like healing sig. The armor penalty aint worth it, and it has no benefit to anyone but the warrior. It's a team effort to me.

I think you missed the point of what I was saying though. I hate to die. To me... you should be ashamed of yourself if your a warrior and you die in a PUG. The only reason you should die as a warrior is the fact you are the only one left standing. The first job of the warrior in any group should be agro control, target selection/focus, and party protection. Thats right I said protection. Think of yourself as a big badass bodyguard filling in the gap. My reasoning is this:

1. Mending keeps my health up close to 100% becuase I link it with anti melee skills like Gladiators Defense. And I do take along Watch Yourself now and then but prefer anti melle skills. I use WY only to buff my party if they are in close range. This comes from knowing where you are going to be fighting, i.e., open space or close range. Cause I dont need Watch Yourself or Healing Signet (and the armor penalty) if I dont get myself into that situation to begin with. Think about it... if your tanking... do you really want an armor penalty for 100 health you may not have needed if you have mending? Works for me. I said this so I could say this:

2. If nothing is damaging me, and I have continuous 100% health, continuous energy regen through Balthazars Spirit, and severe axe damage skills... My monk dont even need to look at me for about the first 15 or 20 seconds of a fight. But if he gets into trouble by a baddie that gets loose... guess who's there to give him extra HP... me. Cause that mo in w/mo means monk. I really don't care to help out a teammate in trouble.

Now, in general, not directed at Sagius:

I'm not pulling my own chain here. I am not saying that my way is the best way. I can tell you that I die often with henchies LOL. They just can't do RoF. But I very seldom die in an even half decent PUG. Everyone has to learn.. I did. And I struggled. But what everyone needs to know is that I got here with good and bad rangers and monks, and warriors that I even thought really sucked LOL. Meseez, Necros, and Eles were usually on the ball but they are few and far between these days. But i'll take a decent monk or ranger over a decent warrior anyday of the week.I know ppl called me a bad w/mo till I figured this game out. So what. You think I reallly care what some kid in BFE thinks about me in the end? Not really. If most of you blow me off.. do you think I'll cry about it...uhhhh NO. But we're all in this together and I want ppl to have as much fun as I am having.

Just like the person said a couple of replies back... It depends on the person behind the board bro. You can either help or be part of the problem. And like I said... if they cant roll... they can take their ball and go home. If you cant save your own ass and play like you know what to do... leave the monk alone. I'll be the first to say thay can leave all they want. I'll kill the mission, kick the lame ass out, and re-grab that monk that may just be new and need to be shown the ropes. You dont know who that person is.

derrtyboy69 · Jun 20, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

THe most annoying thing playing as a monk:

Im in RA, and being pressured by 2 wars and a degen necro. A ranger is being hit by another war, and forgot to bring any defense. Im healing myself, conecntrated on not getting owned by the ub3r pressure on me, and then i see

My health is 300 of 450
My health is 300 of 450
My health is 300 of 450
My health is 300 of 450
HEAL ME MONK
HEAL ME

Pisses me off.

Heres nother:

Im boon proting, and me and 2 of my teamates are doing fine. A crafty enemy ele lures a mending wammo off into the poisonous water, then procedes to blind him, strip his enchants, and start pwning him with armor penetrating air skills. Now i get:

OMFG MONK HEAL ME
HEAL ME MONK
HEAL ME
LEARN HOW TO PLAY NOOB
NOOB

All the while hes on the otherside of the map. Another reason i hate people.

SasquatchTimeToDie · Jun 20, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

What about Warrior abuse?

When i play my W/x, i KNOW what I’m doing. I hate it when we are on a mission, and nobody in the group pings low energy, or says "wait", so to use my fully charged Adrenal skills, I call the “Afflicted Monk" or whichever weak link I'm attacking to let them know I’m going in to aggro mob before the ele does or something, since as a Tank, that’s my job, i get called a n00b rusher after about 3 seconds im dead after receiving what is basically a very badly coordinated spike, one easy to protect from, and getting nothing in the form of prot or heals whatsoever. This happened to me in Unwaking Waters where the damn mob is moving towards us and i HAVE TO get the aggro so the squishies don’t die instantly. Then im called a n00b when i die, after receiving no heals or whatnot. Besides, 90% of the monks out there don't deserve any respect, spamming Healing Breeze, and running out of energy before the mob is dead, and taking the lead and oftentimes aggroing multiple mobs, worse than most of the stereotypical W/Mo's. Worst of all is their “I own the group” attitude. If there were less Warriors out there, im sure the tables would be turned, and it would be open season for monk bashing, and Warriors would be respected and admired, and suddenly given a free ticket to elitistland.

My point is, Monks aren't special, get over yourselves, because your egos are showing, and its embarrassing the rest of us.

Edit: Forgot to add.

What’s worse is this ever growing reliance on the monk. I met a so-called MM who said "get two monks, i can't raise and heal my minions all by myself". Then there is the ever-popular monk who says "get me another monk, this mission is hard and i need somebody to help." This is why Mesmers aren't accepted in groups. Monk ‘s clogging up Party space..

Then there is the Monk who makes unreasonable demands like "The Nec HAS to carry BR or i leave" or "Kick the assassin, or i go". Who the hell do you think you are?

These aren’t the days before April 28th. There are 8 classes now, so we don’t have 2 extra spots to double up with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos
Monks are the only class that are completely essential to any group in any game scenario PVE or PVP. Obviously this fact has some drawbacks, though I don't think Anet wanted to make the game balanced in this way :P

Thats completely untrue. Every class has a decent self heal, and if every teammember played right, you will not even need a Monk at all. Monks are there to make everybodies jobs a whole lot easier, but they aren't essential. (All im doing is using thae same logic that people useto discriminate agains Mesmers and Rangers...and it turns out the door swings both ways, doesn't it...Im right aren't i?)

El Dirigible · Jun 20, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

So this is where all the ragequitting monks gather. Good to know.

I have a warrior, an ele, a necro, mesmer, ranger, and last but not least, a monk character. Have played extensively with all of them, without favoring either over the others. They've all finished both Factions and Prophecies, have at least one of the protector titles, have finished most if not all quests. This was the background info.

Now, on to the subject at hand. What in the world is up with all the elitist behaviour running rampant through this thread? Monks aren't above all other professions. Monks are just a party member, like all others. What exactly gives a monk the right to RAGEQUIT (not leave, ragequit, that's the term to use) a party if s/he doesn't get "shown respect", or if they get criticized, or if they don't get their way? If you've ever done anything like that, quit because of some immature reason like that, you go under the Arrogant Selfish Jerk list. Playing with other humans demands a certain level of responsability from everyone in the party, monk included.

Example A: I'm playing orders necro in TopK, in a BP group. As soon as we start, after the very first clash with the popups (was a good pull, so things went smoothly), monk remarks "necro, keep BR on me during the entire time, cuz I run low on energy often". My answer was "I'm an orders necro, that's my priority here. BR is a luxury, not a privilege, and I'm not going to let it interfere with my purpose here". Monk, "are you talking to me?" "yes" Then she ragequits, and whispers, "Lets see how well you do without a monk now noob".

Example B: Hell's Precipice. Me as a monk, guildie as ranger, others were a PUG. "GLF other healer, 7/8", a guy joins. "Hi, you healing?" "Yup!" Great! Mission starts, vizier throws Chimera of Intensity on us, nuker starts nuking the walls before we open seals, starts taking some damage, then the other monk whips out his elite ... Healing Hands. I keep an eye on him; he's using Bane Signet, Banish, Smite, and "helping" the nuker kill the jades on the walls. Of course, as soon as confronted from the party about it, he calls us effing noobs and ragequits.

Example C: Raisu Palace mission; as soon as it starts, monk yells "Choose Argo and Danika!" Party leader asks the rest of us who to choose, and most of us were suggesting Talon and Danika, so he goes ahead and chooses those. Monk: "OMFG noobs". Ragequits.

Example D: Ring of Fire mission, monk goes Archane Echo --> Aegis --> (waits the entire 5 seconds his Aegis lasts with no points in prot) --> Aegis. Then guess what? Starts pinging his energy like a lunatic, despite the fact that we are ALREADY in the middle of a battle, and that 10 seconds ago his energy supply was full. Of course, he ragequits when confronted about his poor skill selection.

Arrogant selfish jerks.

There was a poster somewhere above me that remarked that most of the times it's really bad monking, and not just "monk abuse". I have to say I'd agree with that. There's SO many bad monks out there it's not even funny. While a bad ele is harder to spot (hmm, those monsters should be dying more quickly), a bad mesmer is even harder to spot (unless you see him using backfire in an area with only melee mobs), and a bad Rt is almost impossible to spot (unless his spirits are dying in half a second or something), it's much more obvious when monks and tanks mess up, or when they suck big time. Everyone makes fun of whammos in their party when they see them using mending. Why then not make fun of a monk whose skillbar consists of Jamei's Gaze, Heal Other, Infuse Health, Orison, Scourge Healing, Backfire and Migraine? Why rip on an elementalist using Firestorm, and forgive the monk that uses Rebirth in the middle of battle, then spams his energy being at 0, while his teammates are dying? Because monks are... "special" ... ? They aren't.

When I play on my monk I don't give orders, if I'm not the party leader (even then, always check things with the group first). I don't threaten to quit if there's something I don't like, I don't tell someone "either...or no healing!"

Come on, people, it's a Pick Up Group! There's always going to be a moron, or maybe even two. There's always going to be things you don't like, there's always going to be clashes of interests and personalities. It is inevitable. The key is to treat these situations with maturity and coolheadedness. If you ragequit in the middle of THK because that tank keeps running to the gates, you're dooming the rest of the party, multiplying their efforts up to that point with zero. You're amplifying that tank's mistakes, by converting it from "We MIGHT lose if you don't stay here!" to "We WILL lose now that the monk has left." While that tank might have been a moron, you just proved to be worse, an arrogant pompous moron. Simple as that.

Bottom line, GW is a team game. If you play with a party of humans, you need to be able to work as part of a team. As exactly 1/8th of a team, equal to all others. You screw up too. Warrior mistakenly thinks invincible? Maybe you also mistakenly think you're an incredible monk! Listen to the others calmly and honestly. Use their criticizing as hints on how to improve. Do they rush ahead? Fine, stick with them as long as you can. If the ele or mesmer don't ragequit, why should you? They need to regen too, don't they? If the party will fail, it will eventually; why not even give it a chance? Ignore morons who you see have no idea what they're doing, try to rise above their level; flaming, ragequitting, and gloating in the certainty that they'll die without you is the wrong wrong WRONG thing to do.

That's my two cents anyways. Feel free to ignore it. Get the wrong message from this thread, that ragequitting is fine if you feel like it; then wonder why you see "GLF monk that WILL NOT RAGEQUIT" everywhere.

Cheers,

Dirigible

Dawgboy · Jun 20, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

I'm afraid I have to disagree with some of Amon's "Wammo, heal thyself" theory.

First, you stated that the wammo should be the last one standing? That honor should always go to the monk, who should be way behind the battleline, just in range to heal. That's the only thing you said that I strongly disagree with.

I do agree that the war's job is to absorb as much of the enemy's attention-and damage- as possible. I just think it's also the war's job to help kill. Not a "leet killing machine", but not just a moving brick wall, either. I carry an axe to use it, not because it looks cool.

The only way to get mending or healing breeze to be worthwhile is to pump up healing so much that your attack/defense skills are compromised. There's plenty of warrior skills that mitigate damage and compliment your attack skills. Glad's Defense (for example) will keep my health bar from dropping much. Endure Pain will give me a temporary 200 health when I'm in a tight spot.

There ARE times when wammos should bring self-heals, such as when you know the party will have to split up to do a mission or you know there will be waves of baddies coming at you with no letup, but those are the exceptions.

If you really expect me to heal myself, let me know-BEFORE we leave town. Like it's been said, communication is everything. I might agree and adjust, or I might leave the party. It should take you all of 5 seconds to find another wammo.

The problem I'd have is if you wait till we hit the first mob before telling me you're not into healing warriors. I understand keeping squishies alive is important, but if I'm doing my job right they're not taking a whole lot of damage.

By the way, my main char is a healer. I've never had many problems keeping the wars alive, unless they Leeroy or rush to the next mob even after I ping my low energy. Or...I screw up and get overwhelmed and panick. It has happened, nobody's perfect. I've had the rushers yell at me from and I've had the good warriors-the ones I accidentally let die- say "no prob" when I admit and apologize for my error.

Overall you did make some good points, even though I don't agree with them all.

EDIT- to Dirigible- I have almost 300 hours on my monk and ragequit once- while partied with three pre-pubers, one who was begging for money and another who kept counting down the time till he had to leave for school. I stuck around even after they blew my skill cap, but the begging I couldn't stand. If that was you, I'm sorry.

Littzain · Jun 20, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

I'm sure you hate that.

But you know I hate? People who say they are "healing monks" and then spam Smite, Banish, and Bane Signet.

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 20, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Monk have the most elitist inside their population imho.

Warriors have the largest population over all, yet whenever I see a jerk warrior, I can witness a jerk monk too. Yet, we are always short on healers, which means monk population is now where compared to warrior population. With lower population, monks still meet up the standard number of warrior jerks.

This only mean one thing, majority of monk are jerks.

I met 2 nice monks out of 15+ I met in 1 day.

I blame 55 build, because that's what made all those carebear jumped wagon and completely destroyed the monk reputation. I can't find any other excuse that jerks would want to be the healer who is supposely the primary target (aka, martyr).

CorstedPirate · Jun 20, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

My monk has the Protector of Cantha title. Proof that energy management wins out over waiting for regen.

I accepted invites from PUGs to complete most of the missions. The only Cantha mission that I asked my guild to help me with was Raisu Palace. I seemed to end up in a bunch of groups that claimed to be a masters group but wouldn't hustle. There was the added problem of everyone choosing Danika despite me explaining before hand the reason not to. My reason would be proven right around the time that all chances of getting master are out the window. Of course since I am nice, I didn't leave with a resounding "I told you so." I stayed and helped them get their standard or expert. Of course my guildies listened to my advice, took Cynn and Talon and got just over 18 minutes.

All of the professions take crap about whatever someone thinks they saw them doing. Any time someone feels the need to complain that they are taking abuse cause of monking I point out, at least monks can get in a group. There are some professions that are forced to hench their way through the game because people think they are useless. So, just be quiet about how you are the poor little verbally abused monk, monks aren't the only profession taking it.

That said, my main character is a monk and though people are annoying, that's life.

shardfenix · Jun 20, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

When I monk in pve, I make the group do what I say, you control whether they live or die

Ilya Khan · Jun 20, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

The problem with YOU monks is that you do not know how to play the monk correctly. I will tell you my secret to playing the monk and getting co-operative teammates.
1. NEVER tell them what skills you are bringing
2. Be passive and do not respond to anything they want
3. After a good minute or two into the mission or quest, the jerk will make himself known with a simple "heal me more" or something to that extent.
4. Heal him as much as you can until he gets used to running into mobs.
5. Stop healing him once he is in a big mob
6. Make sure he dies and you defeat the mob
7. Use Unyielding Aura and let your revenge commence

NinjaKai · Jun 20, 2006, 07:51 AM // 07:51

From the first post it sounds like monks can do no wrong. I can't tell you how many monks i've met that demanded praise for their healing/protection. Monks have their bad eggs aswell its not just the other 7 professions.

Slainster · Jun 20, 2006, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

From the first post it sounds like monks can do no wrong. I can't tell you how many monks i've met that demanded praise for their healing/protection. Monks have their bad eggs aswell its not just the other 7 professions.

That might be true.. but its the monks who get the ear bashing all the time!! A simple 'thanks' goes a long way in my books

Don Zardeone · Jun 20, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Yay woot, rantingthread ftw!

First of all, 90% OF ALL GW PLAYERS IN PUGS ARE STUPID
I did a small test a while back, a few months before factions release. 90% of the people I observed in areas like THK, fire islands and later were all doing stupid things.

That includes warriors but also monks aswell as rangers etc..

I have a new hobby: reply to EVERYTHING

Monk: I NEED TO REGEN
Don Warrior: STOP USING BREEZE

Ele: I'm using some skill on afflicted assassin!
Ele: My health is 300 of 500
Ele: My health is 1 of 500
Ele: I'm dead!
Ele: I'm dead!
Ele: rez pls!
Don Monk: USE SENTINEL ARMOUR NEXT TIME

Wammo: NOOB!
Don: NOOB!
Wammo: NOOB!
Don: NOOB!

Don Warrior: *aggroing stuff*
Monk: No Rushing!!!
Don Warrior: AT LEAST I GOT CHICKEN

Monk: WARRIOR MUST TANK
Don Warrior: *whips out hammer*
Don Warrior: CANT TOUCH THIS

Wammo: Ranger pull
Don Ranger: Warrior pull
Wammo: Ranger pull
Don Ranger: Warrior pull!
Wammo: Ranger pull!!!
Don Ranger: NOOB!
Wammo: NOOB!

Exp Wammo: EXPERIENCED Warriormonk LFG
...
Don Monk: Exp Wammo is using Mending!
Don Monk: Exp Wammo is using Live vicariously!
Exp Wammo: I'm using healing breeze on Exp Wammo!
Exp Wammo: =D
Don Monk: =D
Exp Wammo: I'm dead!
Don Monk: =D
Exp Wammo: REZZZZZ
Don Monk: =D
Exp Wammo: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Don Monk: =D
Exp Wammo: WTF????!!!!
Don Monk: =D

Cowboy Nastyman · Jun 20, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

all the disrespect to monks and general team stupidity is the whole reason i named my monk Heal Why Bother

Tingi · Jun 20, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

If you take 5 energy spells, say, orison, touch, eth light, healing light... and a signet or two, sig rejuv or sig devotion, you should not run outta energy. If somebody dies it should be from a spike. Even then, if you are a superb monk you can catch a spike and outheal it. You monks that use heal party, jameis gaze, heal other... you guys deserve to be chewed out for being a crappy healer.

Heal Party is an awsome skill wat u talking about?? My skill bar for PvE is as follows:

15 healing, 11 divine, 10 inspiration

WoH/Healing Light, Orison, Dwaynas, Healing Seed, Heal Party, Inspired Hex, Energy Tap, Rez Chant. With this build i rarely hav energy probs.

NJudson · Jun 20, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

I have a monk that has been sitting at Abbadon's Mouth for quite some time now. I don't really have anything new to contribute to the monk woes that hasn't already been hit on, but I've only played the monk once in the last monk because of the frustration of bad groups.

The last group I've played my monk in was trying to go through Abbadon's Mouth. At that particular time there was absolutely squat for monks available and a group snatched me up as soon as I entered. We sat around for at least 5 minutes looking for another monk, but could not find or get one. We grabbed Menlho and off we went. That group was a joke because of the typical idiots that wanted to go too fast and even though I was spamming that I had little or no energy they zipped right along. Then when one dies I get yelled at for not rezing....hello....rezing in middle of battle is usually pretty stupid. Then the group got split up because a few wanted to run off and do bonus and others just wanted mission. It fell apart there and we all dropped off.

So basically, I'm not going to play monk again until I'm tired of other characters and ready to jump back into it. Yeah, playing a monk can usually guarentee that your not going to have much of any trouble getting into a group, but chances of getting into a crappy group is greater I think.